JM: As you’ve heard… StoryCorps has always been about chasing big ideas.

 

MG: And one of those big ideas is that every single person in the country would one day be able to record an interview. 

 

JM: But during our first ten years, if someone wanted to record, they’d have to come to one of our booths in person. In 2015, that all changed…

 

MG: That year, StoryCorps founder Dave Isay went on stage to give a TED Talk.

 

Dave Isay (DI): Tonight, I’m going to try to make the case that inviting a loved one, a friend or even a stranger to record a meaningful interview with you just might turn out to be one of the most important moments in that person’s life, and in yours… [FADE OUT]

 

JM: Dave had won the TED Prize…. And that night he was on stage to reveal a brand new idea. 

 

DI: Here is my wish: that you will help us take everything we’ve learned through StoryCorps and bring it to the world, so that anyone can easily record a meaningful interview with another human being which will then be archived for history.

 

Over the past couple of months, the team at StoryCorps has been working furiously to create an app that will bring StoryCorps out of our booths, so that it can be experienced by anyone, anywhere, anytime. 

 

Together we can create an archive of the wisdom of humanity, and maybe in doing so, we’ll learn to listen a little more and shout a little less. Maybe these conversations will remind us what is really important. And maybe, just maybe, it will help us recognize that simple truth that every life, every single life, matters equally and infinitely. Thank you very much. (Applause) [FADE OUT]

 

<MUSIC> 

 

MG: And just like that, one of the largest barriers to participating in StoryCorps was gone. 

 

Participant:  Grandpa, tell me about your parents…

 

Annie Yang: What was your first impression when you came to America?

 

Participant Can you share one of the happiest memories in your lifetime?

 

Participant Tell me what you were like as a child and how did you like to spend your time…

 

AY: (Question in Lao)

 

Dad: My advice is don’t grow up, it’s a trap!

 

MG: In this episode… stories from beyond the recording booth…  I’m Michael Garofalo.

 

JM: And I’m Jasmyn Morris. From NPR… this is StoryCorps Then and Now… celebrating 20 years of StoryCorps.

 

[MUSIC END]

 

MG: A few months after the app came out, there was a perfect opportunity to get people to use it… Thanksgiving – a holiday known for putting family members in the same room.

 

JM: So that year… we asked people to use the app when they went home for the holidays. We called it the Great Thanksgiving Listen… and it’s actually become a once-a-year tradition.

 

MG: The hope was that we could get enough people to interview each other… that we’d document an entire generation in one day… like we said, big ideas. 

 

Anyway, the interviews started coming in… from people’s kitchens, hotel rooms… and even one from inside a parked car at a strip mall in Iowa…

 

We asked that person who recorded that one  to walk us through that experience…

 

Kara Masteller (KM): Hi my name is Kara Masteller and I interviewed my grandfather in my 1994 Buick.

 

KM: How did you know that grandma was the one?

 

James Kennicott (JK): Well, she was a good looker. (Laughs) We fit together. We were a good pair.

 

KM: My grandma, everyone referred to her as like a spicy meatball. She swore a lot, but she looked so innocent that no one ever expected her to say the things that she said.

 

KM: Were you nervous to propose to her?

 

JK: No. We had something to say, we said it. Like you. (Laughs)

 

KM: What are the keys to a happy marriage?

 

JK: Well if something happens just say, ‘I’m sorry’ and get it over with. There’s no reason to carry on. I just say ‘I’m sorry. I love ya,’ and that was the whole story.

 

KM: (Laughs)

 

KM: I was really surprised by my grandpa saying sorry. I’ve never heard him say sorry.

 

KM: How would you like to be remembered?

 

JK: Remem—? Ha. (laughs)

 

KM: Do you want to be remembered as like a real tough guy? Or…

 

JK: Yeah, I was a pretty soft guy.

 

KM: You intimidated me when I was little.

 

JK: I did? (Laughs)

 

KM: Yeah. You did.

 

KM: Are you happy about the life you’ve lived?

 

JK: Oh yeah. It wasn’t the easiest life back in them days. Mother died when I was four. And it was a tough life.

 

KM: He tells one story about how he was eight or nine and he was ice skating on the river and he fell through. He didn’t have hot water wherever he was living with his dad. So he broke into the school and just took a hot shower in the school. I think that says a lot about his childhood that there was really no one there to help him get out of the water or keep him warm.

 

Last April he was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s, and I had never really heard him say much about it.

 

KM: What do you think about Alzheimer’s?

 

JK: Not much you can do. I even can’t remember some names now myself. (Laughs) So maybe I have got it. I don’t know.

 

KM: And when he said, ‘I don’t know what it would be like to have it.’ That was difficult for me. So then I had to ask a follow-up just out of, I don’t know, self-preservation because I thought I was gonna cry.

 

KM: As people age, do you have any advice for them as they get older?

 

JK: It’s coming.

 

KM: (Laughs)

 

JK: Don’t fight it. Just roll with. I mean real life. Live it. It’s wonderful.

 

KM: (Laughs) Thank you grandpa.

 

KM: After the interview my grandpa and I talked a lot more. The last thing he said 

(laughs) before we got out of the car was, ‘Let’s give ‘em hell kiddo.’

 

<MUSIC>

 

JM: That’s Kara Masteller with her grandfather James Kennicott from her 1994 Buick in an Iowa parking lot…

 

MG: Before this… StoryCorps typically had been recording about 7,000 interviews a year. But with the app… on the Sunday after Thanksgiving… 17,000 interviews were added to the archive. 

 

The app made it possible for people to record even if their hometown wasn’t a stop on the StoryCorps tour… which is important… because some conversations can’t wait. Dave Isay knew that first hand… 

 

DI: Ten years ago, I recorded a StoryCorps interview with my dad. I never thought about that recording until a couple of years ago, when my dad, who seemed to be in perfect health, was diagnosed with cancer. He passed away very suddenly a few days later.

 

I listened to that interview for the first time at three in the morning on the day that he died. I have a couple of young kids at home, and I knew that the only way they were going to get to know this person who was such a towering figure in my life would be through that session. I thought I couldn’t believe in StoryCorps any more deeply than I did, but it was at that moment that I fully and viscerally grasped the importance of making these recordings. Every day, people come up to me and say, ”I wish I had interviewed my father or my grandmother or my brother, but I waited too long.” Now, no one has to wait anymore. 

 

JM: And we saw people using the app in this way, like Eva Vega-Olds… In 2015, her father Leonardo was diagnosed with lung cancer. After going through chemo unsuccessfully… he went into hospice care at his home in New Jersey. And Eva used the app to preserve his voice…

 

Eva Vega-Olds (EVO): When I was recording my dad, I was in his bedroom that he shared with my mom. There was the hospital bed in there, he had an oxygen machine, and he was struggling to breath, but I said, “Dad, do you want to do an interview?” And he said, “Let her rip,” and so we did.

 

EVO: Daddy, where were you born?

 

Leonardo Vega (LV): Puerto Rico.

 

EVO: And do you know how long you’ve been in New Jersey?

 

LV: Sixty-five years. I’ve been here all my life.

 

EVO: He was a factory worker, worked the graveyard shift, you know so he’s leaving for work when we’re coming back from school. And then later on, he was a custodian and he was always working.

 

EVO: How do you want to be remembered?

 

LV: I don’t know…

 

EVO: Well I plan on telling the kids that you were really loyal, a committed father… funny…

 

EVO: My family’s the kind of family that if you can’t take sarcasm, forget about it. Like my wedding day, I remember walking down the aisle, and my dad was walking like super slow. And I’m like, “Dad!” And he says to me, “Shhh, it’s my day. I finally get rid of you.”

 

EVO: Do you remember teaching me how to swim?

 

LV: Mm-hmm…

 

EVO: I remember you throwing me in the water and I was screaming and crying like I was gonna drown. And I was like, “No, I can’t swim!” And then you yelled at me, “Well then just stand up” (laughs.) Do you remember that?

 

LV: Yes.

 

EVO: When we took him home, he came back to hospice care and the nurses were there. He looked at me and he said, “I think they think I’m gonna die.” And I said, “Well, if you feel differently then do differently.” But every day he got weaker and closer to the end.

 

EVO: Do you think you’re dying?

 

LV: Everybody dies.

 

EVO: Up until that moment, we had not talked about him dying.

 

EVO: Are you afraid?

 

LV:  No.

 

EVO: I wish it wasn’t happening right now. What are you most proud of Daddy?

 

LV: My kids.

 

EVO: Your kids?

 

LV: My family.

 

EVO: Okay, let me end it for now…

 

EVO: I did the interview Tuesday afternoon and he passed on Thursday night. You know, not for nothing but my dad’s a working class fellow, he bought a home, paid off his home, and was able to die in his home, with his family around him. For him, that was the pinnacle of what your life should be. And I think that he did achieve his dreams.

 

<MUSIC>

 

MG: Coming up after the break… 

 

Martin Olson (MO): StoryCorps’ whole business model, if you will, is getting two people together in an enclosed space to talk right at each other, which, you know, when there’s a global respiratory pandemic is, you know, not great. 

 

Stay with us…

 

<MUSIC OUT>

 

[Break]

 

<MUSIC>

 

JM: When the entire world came to a halt in March of 2020… so did StoryCorps…

 

MO: We all were kind of like, what the heck do we do? 

 

JM: That’s Martin Olson, the director of digital at StoryCorps – he’s the guy behind the scenes who keeps things like our app and the archive running. And in the early days of Covid… when suddenly no one could sit down together for an interview anymore… he had to kind of figure out how to keep StoryCorps itself running.

 

MO: I remember we were still at the StoryCorps offices and Dave just came by and, sort of, started chatting. He was just like, “Can we do anything remote?” And, you know, obviously looking a little bit panicked. Like, How can we actually do something that helps bring people together in this crazy moment? I had actually been messing around a little bit with remote recording, and, at that point, Zoom had entered people’s lives very quickly. You know, here we come, a non-profit with a two person digital team and we’re like, “Cool, we’re going to build a thing. Trust us, it’ll work.”

 

MG: And just like that…another “big idea” was born… 

 

MO: And I remember over a weekend basically sat down and banged together like a little basic prototype. Two people with browsers can see each other; they can talk to each other. We can record this audio and then we can get that to talk to our archive. 

 

JM: You know, that weekend where you sat down to just be like, I gotta build this thing? I mean, are you hunched over your computer til three in the morning, like, how are you doing this? 

 

MO: Yeah, I guess coffee is an occupational hazard of being both a computer nerd and Swedish–actually my son’s first word was kaffe, which is, uh, coffee in Swedish. So thankfully that kept me going, but honestly it was a little bit sort of piece by piece, right? It’s like, alright well, Okay so I’ve got one window and I can see myself in that one and I can see myself in this one. Great. Check. Okay, so they need to hit a record button. Alright so we’ll add that. Did it work? Crap it didn’t work. Alright, doop, doop, doop…Try a thing. You realize that you forgot a semicolon somewhere because it’s two in the morning. It’s a little bit of just sort of trying your way forward sometimes, until you sort of look up and you’re like oh, I should probably go to bed or I’m gonna be a little groggy tomorrow. 

 

JM: So was all of this exciting for you as, like, a nerdy tech guy? Or was it terrifying? 

 

MO: Yeah, I resent the premise of the question as a nerdy tech guy, but…

 

JM: Hey, I’m using your words. (laughs)

 

MO: As a highly socially competent tech guy.

 

I don’t remember a moment where I kinda walked in and it was like, you know, Shark Tank and I was like, “Dave, here’s my prototype.” I think it was more like, “look I put this thing together; it seems like this is a thing we can do.” Next thing I know it’s got a name called StoryCorps Connect. They’re like, “When can we get this thing done?”  

 

JM: You’ve got 48 hours…

 

MO: Well no…yeah right. It was a lot faster than you’d really wanna do this kind of thing. 

 

But it was not like a single ‘just me’ effort. There was a lot of different people involved. At the time I also worked with another great guy named Steven on our technology team, so a lot of the early interviews are he and I testing internally.  

 

Martin: Yeah, so this is a recording from my phone. And I guess the real question is how is this going to come out on the other side. Will it come out at all? Let’s see what happens.

 

MO: We’ve gotta see if this thing records so I’ve gotta sit there and just record myself I guess. And so there’s a lot of me just like doo doo doo doo doo, you know,  into the thing and like…

 

Martin: Doo doo doo, <whistling, beats playing>

 

MO: Before we released it more widely, we actually have a whole raft of interviews that were staff members calling family members. 

 

JM: And this includes you…

 

MO: Yeah. So I’ve got one with my sister. 

 

MO: So hey, how’s it going?

 

Sara: It’s going alright, how are you?

 

MO: Ah you know, stressing out. Because this thing tomorrow, in theory, this thing is going to go live and I basically built it in two weeks [Laughs]

 

Sara: Are we testing it?

 

MO: Yeah, we’re testing it.

 

JM: After lots of testing and fixing StoryCorps Connect on the fly… we opened it up to the public…and… people started to use it.

 

<MUSIC>

 

JB: When did you realize COVID-19 was serious?

 

Evette Jourdain: My anxiety levels are always on 10. I pray on my way to work, I pray on my lunch break. What keeps me going is the fact that I need to keep goin.

 

Craig Boddie: I fear whenever I leave the house. Everyday I wake up and just wonder, ’Is this the day that COVID-19 is gonna come home with me?’

 

Michelle Dawn-Huston: I’ve lost several people over these last couple months that I wasn’t able to say goodbye to, and so that has been really hard.

 

JK: One of the things I miss most is giving you a hug. And uh, when this is all over it’s, uh, one of the things I wanna do. 

 

MO: I remember we had this feeling like, you know, this is this important moment, not only do we need to be here to, you know, help people connect, but also, you know, to document this moment when all of a sudden people found themselves in this new alien world, right? 

 

<MUSIC OUT>

 

JM: This new world was scary, unknown, and lonely…because the only thing worse than not seeing loved ones… was the possibility of exposing them to the virus…

 

MG: Dr. Roberto Vargas was the Director of Microbiology at a hospital in Rochester, New York. When the pandemic hit he found himself working long hours in the lab… running countless COVID tests.

 

Because of the risk… and for the sake of his wife and four kids… he started living in a hotel near his lab… and then later in the basement of their house.

 

JM: That’s where he was for this StoryCorps Connect recording… with his wife, Susan, and their 10-year-old son, Xavier, directly upstairs from him… but speaking through their computers.

 

Roberto Vargas (RV): When I would go to the hotel room after a long day and it was just me there, and it was very quiet; that was when I missed you all the most.

 

Xavier Vargas (XV): It got very worrying once I knew the virus was going to be, like, a big thing, and with you gone it was way harder. I just missed you.

 

Susan Vargas (SV): I remember you’d dropped groceries off and put them on the front porch, and that’s when we started talking through the window next to our front door. You would talk on your cell phone, and the kids and I would sit behind the window. And I remember one of the hardest nights, I think you were just exhausted, you just had your head on the window and were crying.

 

But eventually, you started sleeping in the basement. And I would not let the kids go past the top of the basement stairs.

 

XV: We had to stay far away but I just felt better that you could be, like, a part of us. 

 

RV: Mm-hmm.

 

XV: It’s still very hard but it’s just nice to see you, Dad.

 

RV: You have been so helpful to mom, so thank you, ok? 

 

XV: Thanks.

 

SV: I remember, once you came into the basement, the best night I had yet, you know, your coworker had made all these different dishes for us. You sat at the bottom of the stairs in a rocking chair, and I was at the top.

 

RV: I remember that, yes. I even remember the food; it smelled so good.

 

SV: It was the first time we had been able to connect in so long and, as crazy as it sounds, it’s the best date I’ve ever had with you in my life. 

 

RV: Without you, I wouldn’t have been able to do what I’ve been able to do at work. You have to be absolutely everything to our four beautiful kids. I’ve never loved you more and I know it hasn’t been easy.

 

XV: Can you guys try not to cry, it makes me sad when you cry.

 

SV, RV: [Laugh]

 

SV: Oh sorry, honey. These are tears of happiness.

 

SV: Roberto, I admire you so much–always admired you–but you’ve done things these 

past couple months that seem impossible.

 

RV: What you’re doing is a lot harder than what I’m doing, a lot harder.

 

XV: Dad, I just want to say thank you for helping get rid of this virus.

 

RV: That’s a team effort and that team includes you. But what carries me through is this family.

 

<MUSIC> 

 

MO: StoryCorps was always really about people talking to each other and looking back, sort of saying, like, where did you grow up? How did you get to this place? During that time though we actually have so much of people just connecting with each other and saying, like, so how has this been for you? How is this currently going? These basic realities of, like, figuring out how to be around each other, how to find toilet paper, you know, which, remember that? 

 

JM: God yeah.

 

MO: That was fun.

 

MG: At this point, it’s been more than half a year that we’ve been living in isolation… and then Thanksgiving comes along… a holiday where we’re all supposed to get together. 

 

JM: So once again, the question was… what do we do?

 

<MUSIC OUT>

MG: There was an older story from before the pandemic…about a vacuum repair guy from Melrose, Massachusetts named Scott MacCaulay… and he hosts Thanksgiving dinner for strangers. We thought maybe he’d have the answer…Here’s his original story from 2010…

 

Scott Macaulay (SM): My folks decided to get divorced. And if you were nice to one, the other one would get mad with you. When October came, I thought, gee, you know, what’s going to happen at Thanksgiving?

 

So I just thought, well, there must be some other people that are in the same boat. Why should they have that rotten feeling? Why should they be stuck home alone? So, I put an ad in the local paper and offered to cook Thanksgiving dinner for twelve people. People came and they had a good time. And, last year 84 people showed up. What I do is transform the hall at the First Baptist Church to look as close to home as I can get it. I have a fake fireplace. I have Norman Rockwell’s famous Thanksgiving picture framed. And the way I test my success or failure is how long they stay.

 

Last year, I had a family show up two hours late. He had lost his job and they had heard about the dinner and wanted something to eat. And, some of these people might not have anything, but they always find something that they can be grateful for. My goal is always to have nobody sign up, ’cause that means everybody’s got a place to go and everybody’s okay. And that’s what keeps me going twenty-five years later.

 

<MUSIC>

 

MG: So in 2020…we reached back out to Scott to see how he was dealing with this new reality.

 

JM: Well, turns out…instead of hosting an in-person event… Scott partnered with a local restaurant to give away free meals from the window of his vacuum repair shop.

 

<MUSIC OUT>

 

MG: Using StoryCorps Connect, Scott spoke with his friend Loretta Saint-Louis, who he met during one of his dinners.

 

Loretta Saint-Louis (LSL): I was new to Melrose and I didn’t really know people here. And I saw the advertisement. I think it was in the paper. And it took a bit of courage for me to just call you.

 

SM: What was your first impression of this crazy guy on the other end of the phone?

 

LSL: You were so friendly. I was blown away, all the care that you put into it. It felt like I was going to a family Thanksgiving event. And I’m going to miss that a lot.

 

SM: Yeah, because of the COVID-19 crisis. I’ve offered people alternatives to us getting together. 

 

LSL: It’s nice to know that you still want to feed us, but it’s the togetherness of it that’s important.

 

SM: You know, all the people that come …they are young and old, male, female from different places, backgrounds, and countries. And what I find always interesting is despite the great differences, they all have similar things that they’re thankful for. And some of them will make you cry. Somebody will say their son’s now speaking to them. You know, no matter what your condition is, health-wise, financial, or newly divorced, or newly widowed, they focus for some time on good things. And I think that’s 

wonderful.

 

LSL: What advice do you have for people who will be alone this year?

 

SM: I would say call everybody and anybody that you can think of tell them, “I love you.” Don’t talk with your mouth full, you know, we don’t want spraying turkey all over the computer screen or the phone. But connect with as many people that you think might be alone or would appreciate a call and tell them you’re thinking of them.

 

My philosophy is: I can’t fix the country or the world or even the town, but I can brighten my own corner. It doesn’t matter what any of the differences that we can divide ourselves with, if your neighbor’s house is burning down, you run to put the fire out. I’m not going to sit around, talk about it. I’m just going to do something about it. And that’s sort of what the Thanksgiving dinner is all about. That would be my hope for America, that everybody would just brighten the corner where they are.

 

<MUSIC> Vittoro by Blue Dot Sessions

 

MG: We checked in with Scott again this year, and he’s still running those takeaway dinners. Last year, he served 100 people.

 

MO: It was just a weird weird time. You know, and… It is so bananas to think back to it now. But I really do think that it generally felt, just, good to do something. And I’m the first person to say that technology is not the solution to a lot of problems. But it is nice when there is something where, like, you can think of a way to do something that just wouldn’t be possible otherwise. And, again, hopefully, if you’ve done your job right, the technology somewhat melts away, and it’s just communication. It’s just people. 

 

JM: And it continues today. 

 

MO: Yeah. It’s still what we use to record, you know, a lot of interviews. And it’s really opened us up to connect people who have something to say to each other but they’re not in the same place. 

 

I always used to joke with people that whenever there’s a zombie apocalypse, right, I’m not going to be much use because a lot of my skills have to do with plugging things together and, like, electronics and computers. But in this case, all these computer nerdy skills actually came in handy when it had to actually wire things together. So you know, that was nice. 

 

MG: That’s all for this week’s episode. It was produced by Max Jungreis and Jud Esty-Kendall. Our Technical Director is Jarrett Floyd. 

 

JM: Artwork for this episode was created by Liz McCarty. Special thanks to Nadia Reiman, Camila Kerwin, Gaspar Caro and Jey Born.  

 

MG: And it’s time again for that StoryCorps tradition… The Great Thanksgiving Listen. Go to thegreatlisten.org to find out how to participate… in person or virtually. 

 

I’m Michael Garofalo.

 

JM: And I’m Jasmyn Morris. Thanks for listening.

 

<MUSIC OUT>