StoryCorps 497: Meet Them Where They Are
[MUSIC Blue Dot Sessions “Periodicals”]
Michael Garofalo (MG): For some kids, the saying ”just be yourself” can be a scary proposition.
Chris Lopez (CL): Do you ever get scared about what it’s going to be like to grow up transgender?
Gabe Lopez (GL): I’ve been wondering if when I’m older, a lot of people will try to hurt me or something…or…
CL: Like if they find out you were born a girl and they have a problem with it?
GL: Mhmm.
CL: You think they might try to hurt you in some way?
GL: Yeah.
MG: That’s Chris Lopez with her son, Gabe from an interview in Tucson, Arizona in 2015.
We’ll hear THAT conversation and we follow up with the Lopez family and hear about parenting a transgender son. Especially after the Trump administration announced they won’t enforce the Obama era guidelines that protect transgender kids from discrimination in schools.
CL: I’m not sure if being a fourth grader I could go to school and handle the anxiety of “what are people thinking about me?”
MG: From NPR this is the SC podcast. I’m Michael Garofalo, stay with us.
[MUSIC OUT]
MG: Chris and Julio López always knew there was something a little different about their youngest child, Gabe.
When Gabe, who was assigned female at birth, was 7 years old he told his parents that he was a boy. For his mom and dad something just clicked when they heard this. It answered the questions they had been asking themselves about their kid.
Soon after, Gabe cut his hair short (actually he got a mohawk) and as Gabe told his mom in this StoryCorps interview, he took a big step when they found a camp for transgender kids.
CL: Do you remember when things really changed for you?
GL: We went to a camp. And I met three best friends — Luke, Brock, and Cooper. They were all transgender like me, so they all wanted to be boys. Brock taught me how to pee standing up.
CL: (laughs) And that was huge for you, right?
GL: Yeah. That’s why I said we’re bros. We know each other.
CL: Do you ever get scared about what it’s going to be like to grow up transgender?
GL: I’ve been wondering if when I’m older, a lot of people will try to hurt me or something … or…
CL: Like if they find out you were born a girl and they have a problem with it?
GL: Mhmm.
CL: You think they might try to hurt you in some way?
GL: Yeah.
CL: Were you ever worried about telling me that you were transgender?
GL: Yes.
CL: Did you ever try to tell me and then change your mind?
GL: Mmhmm.
CL: How many times do you think?
GL: I think like, four times.
CL: Four times?
GL: I was worried that you liked me as a girl.
CL: Because we used to have a lot of fun?
GL: Mmhmm.
CL: Do we still have fun?
GL: Mhhmm.
CL: So it doesn’t really matter if you’re a boy or a girl, right?
GL: Yeah.
CL: I didn’t know that you were dealing with that on your own. If I’d known I would have tried a little bit harder to have that conversation with you, and maybe start it myself.
GL: Um, do you worry about me?
CL: I worry about how other people might treat you. And it makes me upset to think about what you might have to go through.
You amaze me every day. And you can tell me anything, anytime, anywhere, and it won’t change how much I love you. I’ll always have your back.
GL: Thank you, mom.
[MUSIC Blue Dot Sessions “Cast In Wicker”]
MG: Gabe and Chris Lopez at StoryCorps in 2015 when Gabe was eight years old.
Just an aside here, long time listeners may know this, but people don’t come to StoryCorps to be on the radio. They record mostly for themselves, or for the archive, or for posterity, and we give them the option to NOT release the interview for broadcast, they can say no. When we wanted to run Gabe’s story one of our producers, Von Diaz, had a long conversation with Chris about what it would mean for them. Here’s how and why they decided to go ahead with it.
CL: We told him “you know, there are going to be people who have some not nice things to say, some pretty hurtful things in some cases, I’m sure. And you don’t have to do anything you don’t want to. We can save this for ourselves, we have it recorded to listen to any time we want,” and he considered it. We answers a lot of his questions and in the end he’s the one who said, “There might be other kids out there who feel like I feel and they might not have the support that I have. And, if they feel alone I want them to hear my story and know that there are other people out there just like them.”
MG: That’s from a follow-up interview we did with Gabe and his parents, Chris and Julio, just last week. With the recent announcement that the federal government was rescinding Obama era guidelines protecting transgender kids at school, we wanted to see how they were doing and if anything had changed.
Gabe, who’s nine years old now, has been attending the same school since kindergarten. In the fall of 2015, when he started third grade, Gabe began having his classmates refer to him by ”he” and “him” for the first time. And he says, for the most part, so far so good.
GL: Some people slip up and call me “Gabby” by accident. I’m okay if it’s like by accident, but if they did it on purpose I am not cool with that.
MG: That hasn’t happened to Gabe at school, yet. In fact, Gabe’s school already has protections written into the district codes that protect the rights of transgender kids so he hasn’t been directly affected by the government’s actions.
But other families they know have, and the Lopez family and these other families have been been supporting each other. Even going to school board meetings in each other’s districts.
It’s worth emphasizing what a big deal this kind of support is for Gabe’s parents. In his interview, Gabe says going to a camp for transgender kids was a turning point for him. What you don’t hear is that the whole family went, that’s how it works, everyone is invited. And meeting other families there, that was a watershed moment for Chris and Julio also.
Julio Lopez (JL): Connecting with those parents was the biggest thing. Showing that I’m not alone, there’s other people out there that are going through the same things that we are, because at that time I was kind of having a hard time with the idea of Gabe transitioning. And it’s not because I was against it, it was just that I was scared for him. We’ve heard stories where there’s been suicides and murders with kids like Gabe. That’s what scared me.
CL: It’s just so overwhelming in the beginning. Sometimes I’m embarrassed by some of the questions that I have and I know that I can go to the other parents. There’s no judgement, it’s complete support and I don’t know how we would do it without them. One thing I’ll never forget that first year was Cooper’s mom spoke up and said, “You know, you just have to meet your child where they are.” And so, I need to just pay attention to what’s going on with Gabe and stay in constant communication with him. And wherever he is at any given point, that’s where I need to be. And, that’s all I’ve ever tried to do on this entire journey. Just meet them where they are.
[MUSIC Blue Dot Sessions “Surly Bonds”]
MG: Chris and Julio don’t expect everyone to agree with or understand what they’re doing, and they’ve had their fair share of questions, comments, and hate thrown their way. But there have been surprises along the way as well.
CL: I was really nervous about telling my grandmother because she’s always been religious and she just comes from an older generation. And, I didn’t know if there was a word that translated for transgender from English to Spanish. I had to ask around, like, “Do I describe it to her?” “How do I describe it to her?” And ultimately I had some discussions with my mom and my mom decided maybe it’s best if I try to explain it to her. And, I was so nervous waiting to hear back from my mom about how that conversation went. My mom called me and said, “She had no problems with it and she actually told me about an older family member who is no longer here, has past away, but who she actually suspects may have been transgender and there just wasn’t a word for it back then and that’s just not something you spoke of.” And I thought that was the most amazing response that she could have given. That she could just make that connection and instantly understand in this other way that I could never have predicted.
[MUSIC OUT]
MG: Still, even with a strong community of friends and family the Lopez’s have fear for what the future will hold for Gabe. So much so that Chris and Julio have considered enrolling him in self defence classes.
All through our conversation, Chris and Julio just kept talking about how lucky they feel. They’ve heard so many stories from adults who are transgender about how isolated, ashamed, afraid, and unsafe they felt growing up and the Lopez’s really want to spare Gabe as much of that as possible.
And this isn’t lost on Gabe either, who’s taken to leaving notes on his mother’s bedside table. We asked him what they say.
GL: Thank you for supporting me and stuff. ‘Cause a lot of people don’t have that kind of support. I don’t do it that often anymore, but maybe I’ll do it today.
[MUSIC Blue Dot Sessions “Vittoro”]
MG: One thing Gabe doesn’t mention that I think it incredibly cute is he signs these notes to his parents in his full name, Gabe Lopez.
Julio and Chris say they’ll just continue to follow their son’s lead. Meet him where he is. And if their experience over the past couple of years is any proof, they’ll continue to be impressed.
CL: He is so much braver than I was at his age. I mean, I’m not sure if being a fourth grader I could go to school and handle the anxiety that comes along with, “what are people thinking about me?”
JL: Gabe’s still the same Gabe. He’s a very, very strong kid. We always knew that from the very beginning. But, to take on this knowing exactly what’s gonna be for him in the future it’s…it’s…I don’t know. I give him props.
CL: It’s funny their father/son relationship, I look at it as being stronger than their father/daughter relationship ever was because of how strong that bond has gotten through this whole process, and how much they rely on one another. It’s really beautiful to see.
[MUSIC]
MG: That’s all for this episode. This story was produced by Von Diaz and we had production help from Vanessa Barchfield.
The podcast is produced by Elisheba Eitoop and me.
Find out what music we used in this episode on our website storycorps dot org
And don’t forget to rate or review us on itunes or wherever you get your podcasts. If you want to leave a message for Gabe, his parents, or anyone you hear on the show, give us a ring at 301-744-TALK
Until next time, I’m Michael Garofalo. This has been the StoryCorps podcast. Thanks for listening.
[MUSIC OUT]
