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Kamilah Kashanie (KK): This is the StoryCorps podcast from NPR. I’m your host Kamilah Kashanie.

On today’s episode, we’ll hear from siblings Alice Mitchell and Ibukun Owolabi. His first name is actually Ibukunoluwa but the family calls him Ibukun. 

They first came to StoryCorps when he was 10 and Alice was 25 to talk about their mother, Rosemary. She died from cardiac arrest a few weeks after Ibukun was born.

Alice Mitchell (AM): It’s still, like, really hard to talk about mommy, especially because, when we, like, think about her passing, it was around the same time as you being born. So it’s like…

Ibukun Owolabi (IO): A happy moment and a sad moment…

AM: Yeah.

KK: We’ll get back to their conversation a little bit later. 

But first, some context. The year before Alice sat down with her brother, she came to StoryCorps with her husband, Garry, to talk about her brother. 

AM: When my mom and my dad told me they were pregnant, I was in eighth grade and I was like, ”Mommy, you’re too old to be having babies.” She already had four kids and then here was a new child in the mix. And I didn’t want him around. Ibukun, if you hear this, I’m sorry. I love you a lot. 

But then, after Ibukun was born, my mom passed two weeks later and he, like, was the glue that held our family together throughout that whole time. 

KK: But Alice was holding the family together too. Even though she was a teenager at the time, she was the oldest, so she stepped in to help her father raise her siblings, especially Ibukun.

Here’s more from that first conversation with Garry.

Also, you should know that Alice and Ibukun’s parents immigrated to the US from Nigeria before they started their family. 

Garry Mitchell (GM): You’ve told me a lot of wonderful stories about your mother. Obviously, Ibukun doesn’t share any of those memories. If there was one thing that you could, sort of, tell him and really have him internalize about your mother, what would it be?

AM: She just went to the beat of her own drum. And people say that to describe a lot of people, but she really, like, made her own drum and then did her own beat. And if you didn’t know the tune, you’re out of the band, like, you had to find a way to get with the program. 

And I remember when we first moved to Westchester. Here we are one of the only Black families in the neighborhood and I was like, I’m going to fit in and do all the stuff that people in suburban America do. So we went to girl scouts and when my mom came to pick me up, she was in full Yoruba garb. (Laughs) And I was just like, ”What are you doing?” Like, here we are trying to blend in and you literally do everything you can to stand out. Oh man. At the time I didn’t appreciate it but, looking back, those are the times I miss the most. 

GM: Why do you think it was really important to your mother to give your little brother a traditional Yoruba name?

AM: So there’s five of us, and the first two, me and my sister, our names are Alice and Esther. And I feel like when my mom first came to this country, there was a lot of desire to fit in and assimilate. 

And I remember we had, like, a whole family meeting about what Ibukun’s name was going to be. All of us were like, “We need to give him an English name, because if you give him a Nigerian name, people are going to make fun of him in school.” And even my dad was like, “We can still call him a Nigerian name at home.” 

But then, the day he was born, in all the hustle and bustle that happens after you give birth, she slipped the nurse a note–before my dad could intercept it–that was like, My son’s name is Ibukunoluwa. She wrote it in all capital letters, really big. So that’s what his name was. And honestly, like, even though I was arguing with her back then, like, I’m so glad she did that. 

GM: How do you think things would be different if she were still around?

AM: I think about that all the time. I don’t think I would have as much doubt if she was still around, because I could just ask her opinion about things and, like, know what she would think. Not that life would be easier, but I think life would just make more sense if she was here.

Are you crying?

GM: Yeah a little bit. Sorry. (Laughs)

AM: (Laughs) Now you’re making me cry. 

GM: You said that Ibukun was the glue that kept your family together after your mother passed. What would you describe his role in your life as being?

AM: Well, for like the first year of his birth, he was my entire life. I remember when Ibukun first took his steps in the hallway, like, we were all there. We were all clapping and, like, so excited; you would’ve thought that, like, he won a gold medal. And it was just: the only way to really heal is through that love and joy and Ibukun, like, was that for my family; to help us see that there was laughter and love after death. 

So I just can’t imagine my life without him. When he gets older, I really want him to understand how he helped our family heal and, like, how he really is a blessing to my family.  

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KK: That was Alice Mitchell and her husband, Garry, at StoryCorps in Atlanta. 

It was a year later when Alice came back for another interview—this time to finally have that conversation with her younger brother.

IO: My name is Ibukun Owolabi and I’m 10 years old. And I’m with my sister…

KK: More from their conversation after a short break.

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KK: Welcome back.

When Alice and Ibukun came to StoryCorps, they were both a bit nervous. It wasn’t that they’d never talked about their mom before, it’s just that it had always been a story here and a memory there. So this was new for them. But it wasn’t long after they sat down together that their conversation started to flow.

AM: I remember the day you were born. Do you remember?

IO: Well, I don’t remember the day I was born.

AM: (Laughs) You looked like an alien, but a beautiful alien. And mommy, like, her hair was a mess. She was crying. She kept on kissing you all over the face. 

And mommy spent a lot of time, like, teaching me how to give you a shower, changing your stinky little diapers…

IO: (Laughs)

AM: So after she passed away, like, I just knew all this stuff about how to take care of you.

Do you think that you two have any similarities?

IO: Yes, I probably get my stubbornness from her.

AM: Yeah, like with your name and just anything in life, if she had an opinion, she wasn’t going to back down. 

Do you think mommy made the right choice in naming you?

IO: Well, I like my name but not really other people do.

AM: Wait, what do you mean?

IO: Oh, well they just make fun of it and call me different names: Edoodoo and Ebola.

AM: Well, kids are not always the nicest. 

So do you think, if we could go back in time, would you want us to change it?

IO: No.

AM: Why not?

IO: Because it would probably change everything up to now and, right now, I’m living a pretty good life. 

AM: (Laughs) Your name means blessing from God and, when you were born, you were like a burst of sunshine during a really sad time. And it’s still, like, really hard to talk about mommy, especially because, when we, like, think about her passing, it was around the same time as you being born. So it’s like…

IO: A happy moment and a sad moment…

AM: Yeah. Well Ibukun, this is the longest conversation we’ve had about mommy, so if there’s anything you ever wanted to ask…

IO: I can ask it now?

AM: Yeah.

IO: Okay, what was your favorite memory of mommy?

AM: Huh, I have a lot. I remember I was like 10, I was in 4th grade. Wait, how old are you?

IO: 10.

AM: Yeah.

IO: I skipped kindergarten so…

AM: Well excuse me…

IO: (Laughs)

AM: Mommy was a nurse, and she worked the night shift, and so she came home really late. One night I, like, came over and I gave her a foot massage, while she was on the phone. And I remember she was telling the person on the phone how nurturing I was; that was her favorite thing about me. And I feel like I took that and ran with it because now I’m a teacher, and, like, any time somebody’s like, “Why are you a teacher?” I’m like, “Oh because I’m nurturing and I’m good at taking care of people.” Like, that’s exactly what mommy said about me.

IO: Well, I feel a little depressed that she’s not here to say what she wants to say about me.

AM: Well, if mommy were here, she would say that she’s really proud of you. She’d probably just be standing back nodding her head, being like, I did that, I did that.

You used to be in her belly for almost a whole year. So you guys are pretty connected. And in the two weeks you and mommy were together, she was always kissing you and always holding you. She did love you a lot.

IO: Thank you for telling me all this information.

AM: Thank you for being okay with having this conversation for the first time. I just want you to really understand who you are and where you come from. You’re like a little piece of mommy on earth. I love you very much and my life has been amazing with you in it. 

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KK: Alice and Ibukun at StoryCorps in New York City. 

It’s been a few years since their recording. Ibukun is now a freshman in high school and he’s living with Alice and Garry near Boston. 

But the big news is that Alice had a baby back in February. They named her Everly Rose in honor of their mother Rosemary.

AM: Mommy would be really proud of both of us: we’ve both stepped up this year (baby sound) as mommy and uncle.

IO: It feels really good to be an uncle. You’ve told me a few stories about when I was born and just like, the way that the whole family, kind of, had to resituate because of me being in the house. And it’s just a really big inspiration for me to do the same for Everly. (Baby sounds) You agree? (Laughs)

AM: It’s kind of like the circle of life because you’re 15 now that Everly is a baby. And so, you know how I used to joke around and I was like, “You’re going to have to change diapers like I did. You’re going to have to cook.” How do you think you’re doing with all of those things?

IO: Um…

AM: (Laughs) 

IO: No, no, no, no… I try to help, but you guys do a large portion of the responsibilities for her.

AM: So what you’re saying is you want to babysit her even more? Wow, this is wonderful. 

Um… I think you help a lot. Even, like, you just wanting to spend time with her is a huge help. So thank you. I feel really blessed that I have you all and we have her to just have hope in and look forward to during this time. 

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KK: Alice and Ibukun decided to end their interview by leaving a little message for Everly—something she could listen to when she’s older.

IO: I can’t wait to see what you have become in how many years later you listen to this. I hope you still keep me in your life because it’ll always be a fun time when I’m around. And you can always call me whenever you need it. And if you’re listening to this, you can call me right after you finish it and embarrass me a little bit. 

AM: Everly, you are beautiful. You are strong. You come from a strong line of bold women. I love you just the way you are.

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KK: That’s all for this episode.

Alice and Ibukun’s original conversation is part of a StoryCorps project called Road to Resilience which uses storytelling to help children deal with the loss of a loved one.

To learn more about it, and see an animated version of their first interview, go to StoryCorps dot org. While you’re there you can also find details on the music you heard and see original artwork created by Lindsay Mound.

This episode was produced by Sylvie Lubow and Jud Esty-Kendall, who’s also the editor. Jarrett Floyd is our technical director, and wrote our theme song. Our fact-checker is Natsumi Ajisaka.

Special thanks to StoryCorps facilitators Alletta Cooper and Brittany Bromfield-Diaz. 

For the StoryCorps podcast, I’m Kamilah Kashanie. Catch you next week.