StoryCorps 520: The Gods of Times Square

Voices: 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Happy New Year!

[MUSIC]

Michael Garofalo (MG): For more than a century, revelers have gathered in New York City’s Times Square to greet the New Year. And over that time, the place has had its ups and downs.

In this episode of the StoryCorps podcast from NPR, we’re going to take you back to a Times Square that was grittier, dirtier, and more dangerous than the one you’ll encounter now.

[MUSIC]

This is the Times Square of the early 1990s — when you were more likely to find peep shows and prostitutes on the great white way than the Disney store or Planet Hollywood.

This is before the giant LED screens were installed, when neon still ruled the night.

And in 1992, photographer Richard Sandler started a project, taking pictures of the giant billboards, signs, and lights of Times Square. But pretty soon, his focus began to shift from the sights… to the sounds, especially the sounds of the religious believers who were drawn to Times Square to preach on the street. He switched to a video camera and a microphone, and began recording the missionaries, preachers, and zealots who considered Times Square their concrete pulpit.

Richard Sandler is gonna be our guide into that world. What you’re about to hear, after this short break, is a radio documentary he produced with StoryCorps founder Dave Isay back in 1994. It’s called The Gods of Times Square. Stay with us, we’ll be right back.

[MUSIC]

MG: Welcome back. Let’s go now to the documentary The Gods of Times Square, and our guide, Richard Sandler.

(Sounds of a Muslim call to prayer)

VOICE 1: Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved. Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

VOICE 2: If you don’t believe in God you shall be lost. You shall be roasting on your roaster while you’re toasting on your toaster as you’re coasting on your coaster. The devil’s gonna baste you like a Butterball turkey.

VOICE 3: Those of you that don’t accept Christ as a black man, you gonna be put to death. By the Lord.

VOICE 4: God said hallelujah. Glory be to God. Hallelujah.

VOICE 5: (In Hebrew) Chai devrai Yashua . . . Neshbacha eloheim.

VOICE 6: (in Russian accent): God . . . God is coming . . . soon . . . Jesus is coming. Jesus . . . God, God is coming. God . . .

Richard Sandler (RS): Below they preach and pray. Up above the colossus of Marky Mark, on a billboard at 43rd Street and 7th Avenue, towers over us tiny ants scurrying through Times Square. He demands that we buy Calvin Klein jeans or underwear. Marky Mark is like Apollo. He stands astride this square’s eastern gate, projecting an image of human physical perfection. He has power over us — he knows that we carry an ancient memory of times, ages ago, when any human likeness this large was a representation of the deity.

VOICE 7: Why does everyone hate a street preacher who preaches truth for free for your benefit?

RS: I wish I could fire up a time-travel machine and transport to Times Square an ordinary Joe from Nebuchadnezer’s day and place him in the middle of this temple to consumerism, pornography, and the secular life. I imagine he would be frightened and awed by the sight of these huge and radiant images all around. But I have no doubt he would take the picture of Marky Mark with his drawers pulled down and Kate Moss, her hand poised on the elastic of his underpants, as God and Goddess, and pay them their obeisant due. His prayer would be one more voice in a chorus of zealots. Why is it that Times Square is a Mecca for modern day religious pilgrims, who come to this place to inquire into the nature of God? To argue . . . to pray . . . to convert. I know something persistent and powerful drew me there to discover the Gods of Times Square.

(Sound of Mennonites singing in Times Square, then Hallelujahs.)

MAN: Can I give you a gospel tract, sir? Can I give you a gospel tract ?

RS: What is it?

MAN: It’s a gospel tract. It tells about Jesus Christ and how he died and rose again.

RS: What group do you belong to?

MAN: I don’t belong to any group. I’m just saved. God sent me up here to preach the word of God and give out gospel tracts.

RS: Now where have you come from?

MAN: North Carolina.

RS: Uh huh. And how come you came to Times Square?

MAN: This is just where I felt led that God would have me to come.

RS: So God told you to come to Times Square.

MAN: Yeah.

RS: I see.

MAN: Can I give you a gospel tract to tell you that Jesus loves you?

PASSERBY: Oh, thank you very much.

RS: I’ll catch you later.

MAN: Can I give you a gospel tract . . .

(Sound of homeless woman singing ”La Bamba” and begging for change.)

RS: In all four directions, Times Square vaults skyward, forming a natural, cathedral-like structure. to the north and south are the huge buildings, number one and number two Times Square. Number two Times Square, at 47th Street, is the cathedral’s entrance: a wall of neon affixed to the outside of the Renaissance Hotel. Five blocks south, number one Times Square is the spire and alter, the place where hundreds of thousands of boozy supplicants gaze skyward to view the falling ball which denotes the first instant of another new year. Another new year , and counting , since the birth of Jesus. The celestial lights of this place of worship are not stained glass, but the primary colors of neon. They radiate a pulsing, buzzing force field, holding its congregants in thrall.

Within the grand cathedral that is Times Square there are smaller chapels where turf is staked out by believers who either preach on their own or as part of a group.

PREACHER #1: Television is really hellevision. You’ll have a lot of time in hell to think about the Dave Letterman show. You’ll have a lot of time in hell, you’ll have eternity in hell . . .

RS: The most persistent and visible of these groups has appropriated the corner of 43rd Street and 7th Avenue in front of the old Nathan’s Restaurant.

PREACHER #2: And God’s got a final say on this. They will have their part in the lake of fire.

RS: A half dozen preachers pass the bullhorn in front of a long table draped with gruesome pictures of botched abortions.

POST OFFICE PREACHER: America is not a Christian country. If it was, there’d be no bars, there’d be no liquor stores, there’s be no abortion clinics, there’d be no homosexual parades in California, New York, Chicago, and Washington.

RS: Are you guys going to be out here in the middle of the winter?

POST OFFICE PREACHER: The beginning, the middle, and the end of the winter. Every day, as usual.

RS: Preaching the word, right?

POST OFFICE PREACHER: Preaching the word.

RS: You guys are dedicated.

POST OFFICE PREACHER: Thank you.

RS: What do you do for money?

POST OFFICE PREACHER: I work for the government. Post office.

RS: When do you work?

POST OFFICE PREACHER: From 7:00 to 3:30.

RS: And then you come and preach?

POST OFFICE PREACHER: Yeah, on my lunch hour and now, yeah . . .

POST OFFICE PREACHER: (preaching) There are so many different Gods out there for man: a Hindu God, a Muslim God, a Christian God, a black God, a white God, an Indian God, a Chinese God..

RS: How many Gods do you think are out here in Times Square?

POST OFFICE PREACHER: Well, you got the God of money, you got the God of sex, you got the God of adultery, the God of crack. I remember in the ’60s when they used to write ”Eric Clapton is God” — Eric Clapton, the singer for Cream. And now he’s on his own.

RS: Well the Beatles said they were bigger than Jesus Christ.

POST OFFICE PREACHER: And the Beatles — John Lennon said that the Beatles are more popular than Jesus Christ.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE PREACHER: But who was the first Beatle to die?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE PREACHER: And he wasn’t even old!

POST OFFICE PREACHER: But the first Beatle to die was John Lennon. And the Beatles, just before they broke up they said, ”All you need is Love.” But what happened to the love in the Beatles group? We learned that the Beatles just before they broke up they started hating each other . . .

(Sound of street musicians playing the Beatles’ ”All You Need is Love.” Music fades out to the sound of Korean preachers.)

KOREAN MAN: Ladies and gentleman, the Judgment Day is coming. Repent! Repent…

RS: Over on 44th Street and Broadway, the prophets of doom. A Korean husband and wife preaching team stand on the corner proclaiming the imminent return of Jesus. The husband holds a large cardboard sign of a barcode with the numbers 6-6-6, the mark of the beast, underneath it. These symbols, they say, will appear on the backs of the hands of the ungodly at the time of Armageddon.

KOREAN MAN: 6-6-6. . . 6-6-6 . . .

RS: I saw you two years ago at the Democratic Convention. You said the world was going to end October 28th.

KOREAN MAN: Yeah, October . . .

RS: October 28th, 1992.

KOREAN MAN: Sure, hallelujah. Yeah.

RS: But it didn’t happen.

KOREAN MAN: No, no. Jesus came already in the heaven. In the heaven.

KOREAN WOMAN: In the air . . . but you don’t see. You don’t see.

RS: But I heard your group sold all their property, took their kids out of school, went back to Korea, sold everything . . .

KOREAN MAN: All over the world, October 28th!

RS: But it didn’t happen!

KOREAN MAN: A few people saw. Not many people. Only a very few. Only a few people. Okay? Okay?

(Korean man and woman laugh)

KOREAN MAN: Hello. You must believe in Jesus. Hallelujah . . . 6-6-6 . . .

RS: Even in the face of false prophecy, their belief system remains unshaken. Across the street from the Koreans, a different kind of prophecy.

(Sound of Hebrew Israelites preaching into bullhorn.)

HEBREW ISRAELITE #1: They shall surely be put to death.

HEBREW ISRAELITE #2: You shall be put to death, you so-called white man, and you black men too. The scripture tells you to stop following this white man! Come out from amongst him!

RS: By far the loudest and most strident voices to echo off the walls of the Times Square cathedral are those of the Hebrew Israelites. Clothed in homemade biblical garments, leather and metal-studded, they resemble Old Testament warriors. They stand on a podium amidst large wooden stars of David and written messages proclaiming that the fall of the white man will be engineered by a vengeful black Jesus.

They read Bible scripture in the urgent tones of an angry town crier. They claim they are the original and only Jews.

Most of those passing, white and black, quicken their pace. On one oppressive summer day, a Hebrew Israelite calls me over and tells me to start recording . . .

HEBREW ISRAELITE: Get ready white boy, you next! You next! George Bush, Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher — all you white people, get ready for war! We’re coming for you white boys! Ku Klux Klan. Get ready for war! We coming for you, white boys! Negroes are the real Jews! Get ready for war, white boy. You want to get on your knees right now?

RS: No.

HEBREW ISRAELITE: Well, get the hell out of here!

RS: I won’t get on my knees. But another man does. Skinny and pale, he voluntarily lays on the pavement as two Hebrew Israelites each place a combat-booted foot on his back, while a third preaches.

HEBREW ISRAELITE: You so-called white man, you had over 400 years to extend your hand to the world, and share this kingdom with everybody, but you wasn’t meant to do that. You was set up to be the devil on earth. I take my hat off to you. You did a good job. You did an excellent job of being evil and wicked and perverse and deceiving and deceptive. Love is going to be brought here by Christ when he destroys you and he puts you in slavery. That’s the love that Christ is talking about…

RS: Through it all, the white man remains on the ground, boots on his back. After about ten minutes, the Hebrew Israelites lift their feet and command this martyr to crawl away.

RS: Sir, can I ask you a question? Tell me about your experience right then and there, okay, when you were laying down on the ground.

MARTYR: For me it’s like . . . I’m just not going to hate anybody. It’s beyond me. I dislike the hatred and the rage, because it’s just not a good thing. I can’t see why people have to hate.

RS: What are your religious beliefs?

MARTYR: I have no real . . . I just believe in God. I have no fundamental religion.

RS: What is your work? What do you do in life?

MARTYR: I’m unemployed at the moment. I don’t have a job. So . . .

HOMELESS MAN: You have a quarter? Ain’t nothing in there.

MARTYR: There you go. That’s all I got guy, I’m sorry. But . . . I just say I’ve got to forgive them. If people want to hate me because of what my forefathers did, so be it. If people want to take my life, let them, if it makes them feel better. I’ll just ask God for forgiveness. See you later.

(Sound of Russian preacher banging a drum.)

RS: What’s going on?

RUSSIAN PREACHER: Is coming Jesus soon for judgment. When you don’t repent you go to hell and fire. Judgment Day is coming soon. Judgment Day. You must repent.

RS: I’m Jewish though.

RUSSIAN PREACHER: That’s your problem.

(Preacher continues drumming and then fades out.)

SCIENTOLOGIST: Hi, have you read this book? Dianetics is a good book!

RS: Outside the church of scientology on 46th Street, a young, heavyset man stands beside a table of books. It’s hot and smoggy. But this man, in full business suit, does not sweat.

SCIENTOLOGIST: Dianetics will improve you. Dianetics gets rid of problems of unwanted things about yourself.

RS: And what’s been your own experience?

SCIENTOLOGIST: Dianetics has improved my ability to communicate with people, my self-confidence, and my certainty.

RS: Your level of certainty in your life?

SCIENTOLOGIST: Yeah, I’m certain about everything.

RS: You’re certain about everything now?

SCIENTOLOGIST: Everything that I know.

RS: What are you not certain about?

SCIENTOLOGIST: What I don’t know.

RS: What don’t you know?

SCIENTOLOGIST: What I don’t know, I don’t know and I know what I know.

SCIENTOLOGIST #2: He’s our best book salesman.

(Mennonites singing)

WANDERING DERVISH: I don’t want to say it but you’ve met a wandering dervish. Religion in Times Square – please! We don’t need religion, we need truth and love. Ahandelea. May the blessings of the creator of the universe be bestowed upon everybody in Times Square.

(Sound of ranting preacher)

RANTER: God says killers go to hell!

RS: At Times Square’s northern extreme, a bearded, wild-eyed, Old Testament oracle rants.

RANTER: You’ve got to think of this before you kill your very own baby!

RS: His Bible in hand, he gathers all his energy, pauses, then spews a sheet of sound which thunders through Times Square, glancing off skyscrapers and billboards and sending people scattering in all directions.

RANTER: Abortionists, why did not your mother kill you?

PASSERBY: Is he out of his mind?

RS: What do you think?

PASSERBY: I don’t know sort of. He’s not normal.

RANTER: Homosexuals, God gave you AIDS. God says homosexuals are to be put to death. Leviticus 20: 13.

RS: I think a homosexual experience would do you a world of good.

RANTER: You make it a carnival: homosexuals filling Sodom and Gomorra. Look at ’em– the filth, the scum of the earth. That’s why God kills you idiots with AIDS.

(Salvation Army brass band plays.)

RS: 47th and Broadway. A Salvation Army Brass Band plays below a clothing advertisement that shows two young, good-looking men in an embrace.

RS: Do you realize you people are playing in the shadow of a billboard advertising homosexuality. See that up there? The Benetton Ad? That’s two guys intended to be in an amorous relationship. What do you guys think about that?

SALVATION ARMY MUSICIAN: What do I think about it? I don’t agree with it.

RS: Why would God have created homosexuals in his grand plan?

SALVATION ARMY MUSICIAN: God didn’t create homosexuality.

RS: You don’t think so?

SALVATION ARMY MUSICIAN: I believe man created homosexuality.

RS: But didn’t God create man?

SALVATION ARMY MUSICIAN: Yup.

RS: So God sorta knew it was gonna happen. If God knows everything . . .

SALVATION ARMY MUSICIAN:: That’s the sin of the world.

RS: Maybe everything’s okay with God, maybe everything that happens is okay with God and there’s like nothing wrong, you know?

SALVATION ARMY MUSICIAN: No, I don’t think so.

RS: But what if we had a vision of a positive God that tolerated everything, that was compassionate, and didn’t really have a problem with what humans want to do?

SALVATION ARMY MUSICIAN: Actually, I do think we have a God who is very tolerant of us. He’s so tolerant, he doesn’t destroy the earth for what we do.

(Discordant street music)

RS: Destruction . . . apocalypse . . . after more than a year in Times Square, the doomsday rhetoric and self-righteousness fuse with the unending sensory overload of this place. At times it seems to me like a roaring, swirling Tower of Babel, and nobody hears each other, and nobody wants to listen — a microcosm of the religious wars that have plagued humanity throughout time.

(Montage of preachers and passersby arguing and screaming with one another, mixed with the sounds and music of Times Square. The sound builds climaxes, ending with black Israelites shouting at woman passerby: ”Jesus hates you! He hates you!” The montage fades into the sound of a church bell.)

RS: Out of this whirlwind, this tornado of intolerance, is spit a man. Carefully dressed and serious, tall and bearded. His hat says ”I love Jesus.” His shirt is a picture of Malcolm X.

STUTTERING MAN: I don’t think Christ w-w-w-ould talk like that.

RS: The man tells me he used to preach in the square. But had to stop. He seems unnerved, traumatized by all the divisiveness, a casualty of religion in Times Square.

STUTTERING MAN: Too much arguing and too much debating and to much arguing. I don’t feel-feel-feel that Jesus Christ did-did all that. When I read the Bible I don’t see nowhere in the Bible where Jesus Christ did that.

RS: Did what?

STUTTERING MAN: Forced people to believe in him. Christ wants his people to reason together, not stand there and argue about the color of a person’s skin, not stand there and debate and curse and carry on and fight and hit and punch. That’s not the way… that’s not the way Christ would act.

(A Salvation Army musician playing a trumpet solo.)

RS: This is Richard Sandler.

(Salvation Army song ends.)

(Sound of a gong, then chanting.)

MG: You’ve been listening to The Gods of Times Square, a radio documentary from 1994 produced by Richard Sandler and StoryCorps founder Dave Isay.

Richard Sander also made a film called The Gods of Times Square, and that film will actually be screening in Kingston, NY on January 16th. You can find more about that at Greenkill.org. That’s G-R-E-E-N-K-I-L-L dot org. And you can see more of Richard’s work at his website richard sandler dot com. I’ve also put links to his Instagram and Facebook feeds in the description of this episode.

The StoryCorps podcast will be back in the New Year. Until then, I’m Michael Garofalo. Thanks for listening.

Epilogue

HOMELESS MAN: You do this all the time, you run this recorder you got?

RS: I like to, as much as I can.

HOMELESS MAN: But what do you get out of it?

RS: As much as I can.

HOMELESS MAN: You don’t sell it to nobody?

RS: No, I’m gonna take it to another planet, and let them see what it’s like down here, man. And you know what, we got a great God where I’m from, a great God. Forgives everybody, and doesn’t tell them they’re gonna burn in hell.

HOMELESS MAN: (Laughs.)

RS: You know like a best friend, you know what I mean?

HOMELESS MAN: Yeah, yeah…