StoryCorps 423: Sissy
[MUSIC “Corona Norco” by Charles Atlas]
Michael Garofalo (MG): This is the StoryCorps podcast. I’m Michael Garofalo, one of the producers here. And today, we’ve got a story from the Cowboy State,- Wyoming. That’s where a man named Sissy Goodwin teaches power plant technology at Casper College. Now, Sissy stands out on campus, because he dresses in women’s clothing. He wears bows in his hair, likes his skirts exactly 17 inches short and prefers his tool boxes in pink. Sissy is straight. His wife, Vickie, didn’t know he wore women’s clothing when they met, but she stood by his side for more than four decades. And at StoryCorps, they talked about when they first started dating.
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Sissy Goodwin (SG): I knew I had to hide my behavior. So I tried to be very macho, as you know. The second or third date I took you on I rode in a rodeo. But, do you remember when I first told ya that I wore women’s clothes?
Vickie Goodwin (VG): It was after we were engaged, and I thought, ‘Well, that’s not a big deal.’ But one of the hardest things was that people made fun of this person that I loved, so I wanted to protect you.
SG: Remember when I was beat up in front of our house?
VG: Mmmhmm.
SG: The guy kicked my teeth in. To have your son have to witness that was pretty terrible.
VG: Yeah.
SG: Remember the neighbors we had? He came out with a knife one day and threatened to castrate me. I call those people fashion critics. But the younger generation, they don’t care what I wear.
VG: I remember the time that all your students dressed up for you.
SG: They all had pink shirts on and either pink or purple hair ribbons. The whole class. That told me a lot. Did you ever … think to leave me, because I was different?
VG: You and I talked about it. But I loved you and I wanted you in my life, and I wanted you in our childrens’ life.
SG: I know, early on, you were embarrassed to be with me, and I felt so bad for you, because now I’m not the man you married.
VG: Well we’ve been married for over 46 years, and I love the person that I have become because of you.
SG: You didn’t know you was marrying a fashion horse, did ya?
VG: I didn’t know that I was marrying someone who was going to take up two-thirds of the closet.
SG: (laughs) I could easily live like my dad, become alcoholic. And I had tried suicide before I met you. But, it’s because you, I went to school and got my bachelor’s degree. It was you makin’ me look in the mirror and sayin’, ’You’re a good person.’ Where do you think we’ll be in 20 years?
VG: Oh, probably walking along with our little canes, holding hands, you in your pretty dress and me in my jeans, being happy.
SG: One thing you’ve taught me honey is you taught me how to love. Because I didn’t know how to love. I’ve learned since that you have to love yourself before you can love others. And the greatest gift you’ve given me is, uh, gift of how to love.
[MUSIC ”I Can’t Wait” by Kieran Kane ]
MG: That was Sissy Goodwin with his wife, Vickie, in Laramie, Wyoming.
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Joining me now is Liyna Anwar, the producer of this piece. Hi, Liyna.
Liyna Anwar (LA): Hi, Michael.
MG: So, at its heart, this is really a love story.
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LA: Yeah, after 40 years, their romance is still going strong. In fact, we got a letter from someone who met them on vacation in Central America,- Cindy Roberts. She wrote in, saying, ”We were on a group tour in the jungle. The trail was lumpy, bumpy, and muddy. The man in the tutu,-” she’s talking about Sissy here,- ”was a perfect gentleman. He helped his wife down all the steep, slippery slopes, like Casanova. And you know what, he didn’t judge me for wearing men’s clothing.”
MG: Can you paint a picture of Sissy for us? Like, what- what does he look like and how does he dress?
LA: Sissy is,- I mean, he’s a really masculine looking guy. I mean, he’s strong,-
MG: He rode in rodeos.
LA: Right. He rode in rodeos, he’s always at the hardware store. And, when you look at him, he’s also not in drag, you know, he’s not wearing make-up, he’s just a guy in a dress. And as for his style, I’ll let Sissy tell you about that.
SG: I guess I’m stuck in the fifties with the petticoats and full skirts and peasant blouses. You know, it’s tough being a cross dresser nowadays. To dress like a young woman, you have to wear Levi’s and a t-shirt.
MG: So it’s fair to say that Sissy is not up with the latest fashion.
LA: Right. In fact, his friends and family are more hung up over the fact that his style doesn’t jibe well with theirs’ than the fact that he wears women’s clothing.
VG: Our next door neighbor makes skirts for you.
SG: She was always on my case about —
VG: Color coordinating.
SG: I gotta be color coordinated, so she started making me skirts and blouses. And, she sees me outside, first thing she does is give me a inspection.
VG: (Laughs) Yeah.
SG: She’s a sweetheart.
LA: And, of course, this works out well for Sissy, because you can’t really walk into a Gap and pick up some poodle skirts.
MG: Right. So, what about his name? Sissy’s not his given name.
LA: He was born Larry, but, one day, you know, when he was older, he was walking down the street and an older woman, in a derogatory way, shouted at him that he was a ”sissy.” But he decided to take ownership of it and strip it of its hurtful meaning and kind of take it on his own.
MG: Sounds like, that’s the kind of thing that, as a man in a dress, he’s had to deal with a lot.
LA: Yeah, we heard a couple examples earlier, but in the full interview, there’s so much more.
[MUSIC “Photosphere” by Charles Atlas]]
VG: Somebody eviscerated a rabbit and left it on our front step. We had our car and they slashed the tires on it. And they broke out all our windows on the front of our house.
SG: Remember when I was physically assaulted at the Kansas City Airport? Just wasn’t strangers either. Remember when we’re visiting with grandma one time?
VG: Yes.
SG: And she says when my uncles and his two sons were making plans to castrate me.
[MUSIC OUT]
MG: That’s really intense.
LA: Yeah, this is something that they’ve just had to learn how to deal with every day of their life. And, unfortunately, it just became a part of their normal.
MG: Now, the town they live in is called Douglas?
LA: Yeah, Douglas.
MG: What’s it like?
LA: You know, it’s small, it’s rural, it’s got a population of just over 6,000. It’s the home of the Wyoming County Fair to give you an idea.
MG: So, it seems to me there are places they could go, that they could move to where people might be more accepting or, at least, the reaction to Sissy might not be as violent. Have they ever thought about leaving? Why do they stay?
LA: Well, it’s complicated. Here’s Sissy again:
SG: We were both born and raised here. We have roots here, and family and friends here. But, I know a lot of the old timers in Douglas when they ask where I’m from and I said, ”Douglas,” ”No, where were you born?” and I’d say, ”Douglas.” And it just irritated a lot of people to think that somebody with roots in that part of the country could be like myself. But the reason I decided to stay was because they run people out like me. And if I left under all this pressure, I’m saying that’s okay to treat somebody that way. ’Cause they’re going to leave.
[MUSIC]
LA: So, for Sissy, staying there, where his family is from, it’s a matter of principle for him.
MG: You know, as we’re sitting here, listening to him talk, it strikes me just how tough Sissy actually is.
LA: Yeah. And maybe it makes sense that he calls the Cowboy State home.
MG: Well, Liyna, thanks so much for coming on the podcast and sharing Sissy’s story.
LA: Thanks for having me.
MG: That’s it for this episode of the StoryCorps podcast. I’m Michael Garofalo. Thanks for listening.
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