Mamie Todd (MT): I went up to the secretary's desk and said, "I have an appointment."

And she says, "well, colored teachers come around the back."

I said, "beg your pardon?"

She said, "colored teachers come around the back."

I said, "Well there's his desk right there, and here's a swinging gate."

And so I walked on through it and went to his desk. He was sitting there, he didn't stand up and there was a chair in front of his desk, so I sat there. And he and I had a conversation. And I just told him how I felt, how I really felt about it. And he was a human being; I knew we had that much in common. And I wasn't afraid of him. And I ...

Ann Todd Jealous (AJ): Were you ever afraid of anybody?

MT: I don't know. I have to think about it. I have to think about it.

Anyway, the next day a pick-up truck laden with materials, I mean blackboards hanging over the sides, with all kinds of books. I don't know, he must have put everybody to work at seven o' clock, because by ten-thirty in the morning I had everything I could think of that I had told him that school needed.

Ben Jealous (BJ): Well, we're talking about protests. Mom, tell me about desegregating your high school.

AJ: When I first went there, I remember being assigned a seat, and there was this other girl sitting in my seat. So I went up to say to her, you know, "you're in my seat." And she fell onto the floor, she was so terrified. And then I remember...

BJ: You're really not very scary, mom.

AJ: I was not a very scary girl, and I was less scary then, you know. I'm probably more scary now in my old age. The rumor was that we all carried knives, and she was afraid that I would stick a knife in her for sitting in my seat. And actually, I was asking her to move because I was afraid of the teacher, you know, being upset.

BJ: Mimi, what was it like for you to watch her go through this.

MT: It was very difficult, but she kept a lot of it to herself.

AJ: I did not want to burden them. I was an only child, and my parents talked a lot. And I grew up with their stories, and so I was very, very conscious of a great deal that they carried as a consequence of racism. So I kept as much as I could to myself.

BJ: Wow. Thanks, mom.

AJ: You're welcome, Ben. Thanks for being interested.

BJ: Yeah.

AJ: Thanks for asking.

BJ: Thanks, Mimi.

MT: Good luck to you, darling. There's a lot to be done.

BJ: Yeah, that's right.

MT: There's a lot left to be done.