AF: I always basically wanted to be my brother. I had an older brother who was 3 years above me. And I just I wanted to wear his clothes, I wanted to hang out with his friends, I wanted to emulate everything he did, in fact I tried to many times. He got irritated with me quite a bit. I would sneak into his room and put on his clothes. Like I would wear his shirts, I would wear his jeans, and then I remember like at bed time like just wishing that I would wake up a boy. That was like my big wish. For some reason everything would just fit then. How did you feel growing up?

CE: When I got my period I didn't tell anybody. And I didn't realize this would be something that would go on for like years. Because I thought, if I wish hard enough it will go away. And it wasn't until like months later, my mother, she was like, Did you start your period? And I was like, I dunno, whatever. She was like, Oh my goodness you're becoming a woman.

AF: Yeah, no I can relate to that.

CE: Well how has the transition been? Because now you completely pass 100% of the time.

AF: It's still like a work in progress essentially like like you say I've been passing full time, I've been passing for probably about a year now. When people call me Sir it's just great. That recognition all the time. Because there was that time when I was you know really in-between and it could go either way. So someone would call me Ma'am of Miss or someone would call me Sir, you know. And that was a really awkward time for me. In my daily life now it's just, it's great. I'm read as male like certain situations are definitely easier for me. In my job its a lot easier for me to delegate things and tasks to employees. They don't I don't feel like I have to do it in like a nice way or have to frame things you know

CE: Right. Yeah.

AF: And I always constantly thought about that before. This needs to get done and I tell them and they do it. And I'm nice about it but that just kinda cues into like the differences. How bout you because it seems like you're starting to pass now?

CE: Right. Sometimes I pass and sometimes I don't and I have to say that since I began this transition just psychologically emotionally and physically is Ive become a lot happier and my life is taking a different turn, you know. I'm just at a better place with myself and there's a lot of rough patches because I'm in that in-between place so sometimes its really uncomfortable and its kinda crazy to see myself evolving on a weekly basis

AF: Yeah.

CE: in terms of where I find myself being accepted as male and just kind of relaxing in that. That's what I'm beginning to learn is who am I and just be happy with that.